Pete Hines on Starfield, Bethesda and bugs: "We embrace chaos"

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Starfield is not technically out until next week, yet it is already dominating conversations in many ways across the games space – and inevitably bugs are a factor.

While multiple reviews from the initial wave of critique for Bethesda's latest blockbuster refer to Starfield as the company's most polished game to date, this comes with the slight caveat that it's not completely polished. Indeed, thanks to those with early access or review code, images of in-game bugs such as floating heads are already doing the rounds on social media - although these seem to be rarer than in Skyrim or Fallout.

GamesIndustry.biz spoke to head of global publishing Pete Hines ahead of launch at last week's Gamescom 2023, where the subject of Bethesda and its history with bugs inevitably came up. But while the company has become known (fondly, in the case of many fans) for the quirky errors in its open-world RPGs, Hines suggests its less important that the team's efforts to give players more freedom.

"We embrace chaos," he told us. "We could make a safer, less buggy, less risky game if we wanted to. But what we try to lean into is player freedom. Yes, there's going to be some little things here and there where your companion might stand a little too close to you sometimes, yet the freedom you get, and the things that happen because of that, we absolutely love and embrace.

"Of course there are bugs. But does it take away from your experience? Or do you have a consistent, fun game that you just can't stop playing and experimenting with?"

Our conversation with Hines delved into the state of the industry and where Starfield fits in, the influence of Xbox and Game Pass on how Bethesda has approached the game, following the mixed reception to Redfall, and facing the company's reputation for bugs in its biggest titles.

The interview can be read below. Please note it has been edited for length and clarity.

Starfield is not just the biggest Bethesda release in years, but also the biggest Xbox release. Does this add to the pressure? How do you approach the challenge of living up to these expectations?

No. Now that we're a part of Game Pass, every game we make is our biggest game because our audience only grows. Having said that, a [Bethesda] Game Studios game is something special – they don't come around that often. For something like this, if you like Elder Scrolls, if you like Fallout, it builds excitement. But in ways that is, for us, less pressure and more affirming.

I've been at this company for 24 years. We've shipped some garbage during that time. I know what it's like when you have a game that nobody cares about or is talking about. Trust me, you would kill for somebody to talk about you, even in a negative way, just to acknowledge that you exist. At the end of the day, people talking about you, and being interested and speculating, it's because they care. It's because they're really interested. So we try and embrace that, and make sure that, when we're talking to our players, that we're giving them the kinds of information and showing them the things we think they want to see.

Bethesda's previous release – the Arkane-developed Redfall – didn't receive the warm reception that was expected. How has that changed things internally at Bethesda? Has it placed more pressure on Starfield? How have you adapted to this?

We are always in a process of learning, so that's not new for us. We don't like failing to meet our players' expectations. At the same time, we are the same company that has had launches that didn't go the way we wanted, and we don't quit or abandon stuff just because it didn't start right.

"We don't quit or abandon stuff just because it didn't start right"

The Elder Scrolls Online's PC launch was not flawless but we stuck with it. Now it's like this insanely popular multiplatform. It's the same with Fallout 76. Redfall is no different for us. Okay, we didn't get the start we wanted, but it's still a fun game… and we're going to keep working on it. We're going to do 60fps. We're going to get it to be a good game because we know, as a first-party studio, Game Pass lives forever. There will be people ten years from now who are going to join Game Pass, and Redfall will be there.

As for pressure on Starfield? There's always pressure with every launch. The pressure is an external thing we keep an eye on, but we don't allow it to be a focus because we have zero control over it. What can we control? We control the game. How good is it? How does it run? How fun is it? Well, then let's do that, and everything else will sort itself out.

How involved is Microsoft in the marketing side these days and how do you strike that balance between what the two companies do?

The marketing for Starfield was our responsibility. That's what my company does. We greenlight, we develop, we sell, we market our own titles. What Xbox does is take what we do, and extend that to places that we can't – whether it's brand partnerships, or giving us visibility in places. Whatever it is, we're just looking for somebody to hold the biggest megaphone they can in front of what we have to say.

Has Game Pass and the fact Starfield will be included on this from day one changed your approach to marketing?

It definitely changes how we think about bringing the game to market, no question. For most of my time at Bethesda, we were a small, independent publisher who made all of our own decisions. We were not a platform holder. It's a very different conversation.

We're coming to a launch where, yes, you can buy our game for $70 if you're into Starfield, if you know you want to play it. We think it's going to be an amazing value. But you know what else is an amazing value? Game Pass for $17 to play everything we've ever made – it's crazy. I can totally see [people] signing up for Game Pass. Truthfully, I don't care which one. I've never cared.

"I look to lower productivity on this planet when we put games out. I want people not sleeping and staying up"

The way that cloud gaming integrates with the Xbox and PC, and is making that a whole experience? [That] only pushes that value even more. I've done it. I've gone into work and then cloud streamed Starfield at lunch, using the same saved game that I left there.

And truth be told, we would hear from players: "I'm at work, but all I want to do is play Oblivion. I'm at work, but all I want to do is play Fallout 3." I just love the idea of bosses walking through their office, and everybody during their lunch is playing Starfield. I look to lower productivity on this planet when we put games out. I want people not sleeping and staying up.

That's how you know you're doing a good job, when other game studio directors are emailing us, like, "I can't get any work done on my game because everyone is exhausted from staying up all night playing Fallout 3 or Doom Eternal or whatever." Good. That's what we're going for. We want games that gamers go, "I have to play this. I need this in my life."

This year has seen a handful of triple-A games breaking records (Zelda, Hogwarts Legacy, Diablo 4, etc.) while everything else struggles to reach those levels. Why do you think this is the current state of the market? Where does Starfield fit in, following these blockbuster releases?

There could be any number of reasons. Our philosophy has always been: walk softly and carry a big stick. Which is to say that we try – believe it or not – we try really hard not to overhype stuff, because we want to feel we've got your expectations here, and we can exceed them by some big leap.

I don't want to show you everything in the game. I don't want you to feel like you know it all. I never say, "This is the greatest game of all time." I don't get to say that. I work at the company. I don't get to judge it. Everyone else gets to judge it.

We have to be in a position of like: we're going to come into this space with confidence, like we know what we've got. We feel like if we do our jobs, and what we're supposed to do, [then] what happened in Diablo or not, whether this [other] game did well or not… well, that's them. But this is us, and we know how to do this.

We think we're amongst the best in the world at bringing a game to market in a way that connects with our fans. Hopefully, we then overdeliver with the game.

The industry seems to still be cautious about launching games with lingering technical issues, especially following Cyberpunk. Given Bethesda's history of slightly janky games at launch (which some fans still seem to love you for), how have you approached this with Starfield?

Bethesda gets lumped into this catch-all bucket that I don't think is particularly fair. Doom Eternal is a Bethesda game. I would like to see the person who says that, bug-wise, that game did not meet players' expectations – or Deathloop or Dishonored 2.

"Our philosophy has always been walk softly and carry a big stick. Believe it or not, we try not to overhype stuff"

Bethesda Game Studios has a reputation for things that happen in their games, yes. The thing people miss far too often is that there is some amount of that which is intentional, meaning we embrace chaos. We could make a safer, less buggy, less risky game if we wanted to. But what we try to lean into is player freedom. Yes, there's going to be some little things here and there where your companion might stand a little too close to you sometimes, yet the freedom you get, and the things that happen because of that, we absolutely love and embrace.

Of course there are bugs. But does it take away from your experience? Or do you have a consistent, fun game that you just can't stop playing and experimenting with?

On Neon, a planet covered entirely in water with a city that sits on top of it, we had a bug where a shark was able to get on an elevator. Then the elevator doors would open on a street level and the shark would come sliding out – everybody screams and starts running in every direction. I'm laying into it with weapons, people are screaming and guards are running. I said: "Do not take this bug out of the game!" I'm almost positive they did but I love that stuff.

With Starfield exclusive to Xbox and PC, what does the game have to achieve for Bethesda and yourself to count it as a success?

Our players need to love it and play it. That's it.

How many players?

As many as humanly possible. Every time, my goal is all the players. Game Pass changes the math so much with how many people we get built into this amazing value and subscription. Our job is to market this game and talk about it in a way that's authentic.

I think it's going to be amazing whether you're playing on an Xbox, whether you've got a Samsung TV with a controller, whether you're on your PC – all those are going to be amazing ways to play this game. We just hope everybody enjoys it as much as we enjoyed making it.

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